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 Like most Celtic fans, we take great pleasure in the massive financial problems currently being experienced by ‘THEM’. With administration now being in place, the pantomime is set to continue for some considerable time. Happy days are here again.
Without wishing to spoil the party, a note of caution may be in order.
THERE IS NO CHANCE THAT THE SCOTTISH ESTABLISHMENT WILL ALLOW THE ESTABLISHEMENT TEAM, THEIR TEAM, TO GO TO THE WALL. ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE!
To quote Mark Twain – ‘reports of my death are greatly exaggerated’.
The only way we will have ‘jelly and ice cream when Rangers die’ is by hammering the final nail in their coffin ourselves. A sustained period of Celtic dominance in Scotland, combined with regular participation in the Champions League, will be a more effective grave digger than HER MAJESTY’S REVENUE AND CUSTOMS.
Why let the tax man have all the fun when we can all buy shovels and start digging their grave ourselves?
The shovel, of course, is a Fan Ownership Scheme (FOS) for our beloved Celtic. Implemented effectively, this could lead to an annual budget of £30 million for investment in team development. That really would be ‘jelly and ice cream’ time, ensuring our domination of the Scottish game, with the bonus of guaranteed year-on-year participation in the Champions League. Regular participation in the last 16 would become the norm.
We have listed below ten main reasons why a FOS is at least worthy of debate within the Global Celtic Community. Are we living in the same cloud cuckoo land as Craig Whyte with this idea or is a Fan Ownership Scheme critical to the short, medium and long term future of our Club? Feedback and comments are very much welcome. Is this a debate worth having?
Future articles will look at successful Fan Ownership Schemes at other Clubs; how it might work for us; the obstacles to be overcome; and next steps for ‘getting there’. The case of Benfica, in particular, is worth looking at from a Celtic point of view.
THE TEN REASONS TO CONSIDER A FAN OWNERSHIP SCHEME
- Credit Where Credit is Due (off the park): The concept of a Fan Ownership Scheme should in no way be seen as a criticism of the current Board of Directors. The Celtic support fully appreciate the critical importance of sound financial management and we thank you for your efforts in this area over the last decade or more. However, today we stand at a crossroads in our history. We can stand still, go back or move forward to take our rightful place at the top echelons of European football? A successful FOS is the best, indeed the only, way of achieving this. If there is a good reason why a Fan Ownership Scheme would not work, we would encourage someone from the PLC telling us why that would be the case. If it is something worth debating, please join the conversation. After all, we have the same ambition for Celtic, don’t we?
- Credit Where Credit is Due (on the park): The majority of Celtic fans would agree that NL and his background staff are putting together a fine young team with real potential. However, all top teams balance youth with experience, by signing a few top quality players. A Fan Ownership Scheme will provide NL with a significant on-going annual budget for team development. This could be as high as £30m per annum. More importantly it would be sustained long-term investment in the team, while at the same time remaining debt free. Where would that leave THEM?
- THEM: Talking about them, there is a strong likelihood that RFC will emerge from their current difficulties in a much stronger, debt free financial position. Remember, they are the establishment club and the establishment look after their own. We need to be ready for this. We need to be 30 steps ahead of them. To paraphrase a ‘come back and bite you on the bum’ quote, for every 10 pence they might spend, we need to be in a position where we can spend £30, if necessary. How nice would it be to watch them emerge from their current predicament at the same time as we disappear into the European sunset? And ‘The Bill’ is not even on the telly for them to watch anymore. The history of Celtic FC is a history where we have consistently failed to fully capitalise on periods of RFC decline. Please don’t let it happen again. We are the only people who can really bury THEM for good.
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- We Are The People: We all know who the real people are. FACT: Celtic fans are the best in the world. It’s that simple. Give us a chance to prove how good we really are by handing ownership and control back to the people who love Celtic, all 10 million of us. This is not our estimate. It is the estimated number of Celtic fans, and those of a Celtic disposition worldwide, used by the Club’s PR machine when talking to potential sponsors. PS unlike Scotland’s Shame we use the WATP term in a totally non-fascist way. Race, creed, colour, sexuality etc not important. The only requirement is a love of Celtic.
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- Investment in Team Development: While there will be numerous points of detail about the Fan Ownership Scheme that will need to be sorted out by people more expert than us, the bottom line question for the majority of Celts is what difference will it make on the park? A successful FOS could result in an annual budget of £30 million for team development – yes £30 million per year. Consider this - 100,000 fans and those with a Celtic disposition contribute £10 per month. This equates to an on-going yearly investment in team development of £12 million. Such investment would ensure our domination of the domestic game, regular participation in the Champions League and a strong possibility of last 16 participation on a frequent basis. This would leverage additional revenue of £15 million per annum. Additional merchandise sales, sponsorship etc would bring this well above £30 million per year. We are sure that there are many Celtic Minded lawyers, accountants and other professionals who would only be too happy to contribute their services to ensure that sound business and legal practices are followed. Please get in touch for a chat. This investment of £30m per annum may seem implausible to many. However, as a future article will show, it is of a similar magnitude to the sums raised by the membership schemes of clubs such as Benfica – so achievable. Who is the bigger of the two Clubs?
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- Where are the 100,000?: The obvious question to ask in all of this is whether we can find 100,000 fans willing to make a monthly contribution of £10. To those who doubt we can, a one word answer will suffice – Seville! The one game in our history that showed without a shadow of a doubt the size and global power of the Celtic diaspora. Why have we gone backwards since then?
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- Open to All: It should be noted that the 100,000 @ £10 per month target is only one of many ways a FOS can be successfully achieved. Some fans may be able and willing to contribute more; others less. As befits the founding principles of our great Club, the FOS will operate on a one person, one vote basis regardless of ability to pay. The only requirement for membership is a love of all things Celtic.
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- The Internet and Globalisation: As future articles will show, there are many football clubs around the world who operate successful Fan Ownership Schemes. None of these Clubs come anywhere near the global potential of Celtic. The Internet and Social Media present major opportunities for building a united online global Celtic community who would both own and control the club. A very exciting opportunity is that the FOS would open up the Club to hundreds of thousands of non-traditional fans. Just consider the potential in countries such as Japan and S. Korean where player signings have been made. Don’t just support Celtic, part own it.
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- United We Stand, Divided We Fall: It goes without saying that professional managers will always manage the Club’s affairs on a day-to-day basis, on and off the Park. On the park, we would hope that the current management team, under the leadership of NL, are with us for a very long time to come. The FOS would provide them with massive financial support. The most important difference in the way the Club would operate is that all major ‘strategic’ decisions would be made on a democratic, ‘one member, one vote’ basis. The Board of Directors would be fully accountable to the new owners, the fans.
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- Power of the crowd: Leveraging the global power of the Celtic Diaspora, the FOS can create a ‘tipping point’ that propels us into our rightful place in the top echelons of European football. A side benefit is that it will finally tip ‘THEM’ over the edge.
The party started at Inverness, continued at Swinecastle and no doubt Easter Rd on Sunday will be something special. ‘We’re having a party when Ragers die……. Jelly and ice cream when Ragers die…. Pass the parcel when Ragers die……Do the huddle when Ragers die’.
How much more fun would it be if we could capitalise on their demise by bringing those big European nights back to Celtic Park on a regular on-going basis? Now that would be a series of parties to look forward to.
We would very much welcome the thoughts and comments of fellow Celts on this article. Is there something here worth discussing? Would you support a Fan Ownership Scheme? If you think that the concept is ‘pie in the sky’ please tell us why?
Hail Hail
PS Talking about the gathering gloom over ipox, a massive thanks to the Celtic fan who runs the www.rangerstaxcase.com web site. All fellow Tims owe you a great debt of gratitude. We hope that one day you can ‘out’ yourself to receive the public recognition you deserve for the work you have done over the last couple of years. But then again if you ‘come out’, you will probably need to emigrate. Please keep up the fight. Victory is in sight.
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Comments
I do not have any preconceived ideas on how this would work and there are others better qualified than me who can cover the legal, financial etc aspects. The article is really just an attempt to test the level of support for this among the global Celts.
Looks like you are 100% behind the idea and thanks for that. We only need another 99,999
Thanks for taking the time to comment - much appreciated. Take care.
As was mentioned previously this is similar to what Harry alluded to in his Celtic Revival Post. At that time I posted that Brian Dempsey in the Podcast with Eddie and Harry stated he felt the possibility of a Fan Ownership scheme was a one time opportunity that was missed and that was at the point which the old Board said goodbye and before Fergus took full control.
A point you dont mention dealing with is paying the current major shareholders out? How would that happen, Desmond et al have invested a lot of cash in Celtic, how do they get a return on their investment or at the very least get their cash back, which they are perfectly entitled to, I'm assuming of course you are referring to total Fan Ownership and not partial.
As I mentioned in my response to Harry, the Celtic diaspora is if anything diluting year on year, yes we have thousands of ex pat supporters in America etc but their kids/grand kids etc will in course have less of a connection with everything Celtic as years go by. I doubt we can rely on very much beyond the shores of Scotland and maybe Northern Ireland for any long term plan.
Harry cited Benfica also, its worth pointing out they have won the league 3 times in the last 20 years and only once since 2004 when their FOS started so I don't think their case is one we should be using as any basis of a FOS being the way forward. Yes there are others so i await your piece on that with interest.
Where I do agree with you is that it is important our Board don't now sit back, arms folded feeling quite happy with themselves. I think our fiscal policy in recent years has been excellently managed and today's events prove what happens when you listen to fans clambering for another big marquee signing and having a chairman with an all too willing ego to oblige. That said I feel our policy in recent years has been driven in part by what they might do or rather not do across the City. We are being given a massive head start here and capitalising on that wont be done by thinking they are on their knees for a while so we can relax, they will likely come out of this in some shape or form revitalised and ready for battle to restore pride and you are right we need to be several steps ahead of them.
For example: How can you guarantee that those 100,000 pay their monthly rate? What if thousands lose their jobs? As for the hypothetical £30million per year of investment, I think we need to take a note of Der Hun and how overspending - when it wasn't neccessary - has landed them in serious trouble. I'm not saying I'm against a Celtic fan ownership plan in principle, and I love your ambition, but let's just see how our current infrastructure handles Der Huns's inevitable extinction, backing Neil Lennon for a push at the Champions League etc etc. I feel that only some sort of crisis for us next season should fan ownership and changing the structure of the club be debated, at the moment enjoy the ride and all the jelly and ice cream you can handle. Hail Hail
More comments/feedback very welcome.
All the best HH
With the exception of company associated teams Wolfsburg (Volkswagen) and Bayer Leverkusen, German clubs are by law required to be majority fan-owned. This is also the case in Argentina and as many know, Real Madrid and Barcelona are owned by their members.
Benfica and Portugal has been mentioned in the comments section. For the record, Benfica have actually won it twice, but if we are assessing the merits of fan ownership on football performance, then as both Porto and Sporting are also fan-owned, one could argue that fan-ownership = success as fan-owned clubs have won every Portuguese title in the last decade. Of course, in reality there are so many variables that equating a particular club structure to sporting success is overly simplistic.
However, fan-ownership can provide huge income streams as well as higher levels of supporter involvement, through democratically electing candidates to run the club and through accountability of the democratically elected directors.
Firstly, the huge income streams: Lets look at Benfica, which is comparable to Celtic in many ways-European history, huge domestic and worldwide support amongst diaspora, yet stuck in a small domestic market. Benfica have various membership schemes with varying annual fees which are paid for in monthly installments; €36 Infant, €72 Child, €156 Full membership, €78 Low Income membership, €78 Member for 10 years or more, €100 Long distance member.
(For the record, Sporting's fees are very similar)
Benfica has reached more than 244,000 members. Yes, more than two hundred and forty-four thousand members. Recently whilst living abroad I was a member of a football club and I know from my own experience that you can fall behind with monthly payments and consequently not all of these members will be contributing each month. When in discussion with a fan website, Planet Benfica, they believed that the club were receiving monthly payments for approximately half of these members. With the various memberships on offer to fans you can gauge the level of income membership can generate for Benfica.
What do the memberships provide? Well for example, firstly to become a season ticket holder you are required to be a member. However, common among almost every fan-owned club is that being a member provides huge discounts for tickets and the ability to purchase further tickets (apart from your own season ticket) at a preferable rate. As huge numbers of members are involved in these clubs, business are attracted. A glance at the Benfica or Sporting websites will illustrate the level of discounts that a club member will recieve at restaurants, supermarkets, department stores, car repair places etc
No doubt, providing every Celtic member with a 'free' subscription to CelticTV could entice many companies to advertise on the channel (and subsidise it) as they'd know that they have a huge captive audience.
There are a variety of benefits of being a club member, but perhaps the most profound is simply the right to vote.
As we may see in the forthcoming years, the current incarnation of Rangers may cease to exist, but it may well be the case that they return in a new form, under a new company. Why? Because in whatever country, the fans ARE the club. Mismanagement may determine that businesses become bankrupt and cease to exist, but the idea of the club will remain and clubs reform-look at Fiorentina...even little Airdrie.
The fans are the club and in the case of Celtic (which has relatively low commericial/tv income), the fans directly provide the club with the vast majority of its income. In such a situation it surely makes sense that the fans should have a democratic vote in the running of the club and that our elected officials are accountable to the fans, who are paying them and funding the entire club.
Celtic is not just a PLC, but a social institution and as such should have far greater levels of democracy than is currently the case.
As stated in the initial post, one of the main aims of the article was to stimulate debate on the Fan Ownership topic so a big thank you for taking the time to respond. I really do appreciate it.
Markobhoy - thanks for your very detailed response which shows that the concept of Fan Ownership works very well at other Clubs, so why not at Celtic? The Benfica example is a very interesting one and the obvious question to ask is who is (potentially) the bigger of the two Clubs - Benfica or Celtic?
Theyhaveneverwonit (love the name but maybe it could be changed to Theywillneverwinit :-))and Thinker -
Again a big thanks for taking the time to comment. My response to the various points you raise would be as follows (apologies for lumping these together and using bullet pts - its the way my brain works)
1. 'Dealing with the current major shareholder' - yes i agree that it would be fit and proper for him to make a ROI/get his cash back. I would hope that the majority of fans would agree with this. The exact terms would hopefully be agreed on a friendly basis with a scheduled repayment over say a period of ten years. In the early years, the majority of income from a FOS should be invested in the team. Success would lead to a surplus, part of which could be used to repay his investment on agreed terms. No preconceived ideas on this so open to any and all suggestions. Thanks for raising what is a very important issue.
2.'The Celtic diaspora may be diluting'. This may or may not be the case. If true, it makes a FOS even more critical. I would see this as a major way of reinvigorating the Celtic brand e.g the infant and child membership categories mentioned in Mark's article. Also, i would see a FOS opening up major new non-traditional markets for us - in Asia and South America. Don't just support Celtic - part own it.
There is a small English Conference League Team called Ebbsfleet Utd that is owned by 20,000 members. I would feel confident that the target of 100,000 could easily be achieved by Celtic. Adam seems to think this could be a conservative estimate.
Also worth pointing out that the figure of 100,000 is not written in stone - there are different ways this could work.
3.'Benfica not winning the league too often' - think Mark has answered that
4. 'Excellent fiscal policy of the Board'. Yes i would accept that 100%. However, i see a FOS as a way of generating much needed investment without putting the Club into debt. We would still operate on a sound fiscal policy, not spending more than we earn - simply at a much higher level of income.
5. 'Wait to see how the present Board handle things short term' - don't think we have an option here as a FOS is not going to happen overnight. Will be interesting to monitor this. Will they seize the opportunity or use it as an excuse for less investment in the team?
6. 'Wait until the next crisis'. Maybe that's what will happen. As we know, unlike THEM, the Celtic support rally round their Club in times of crisis. Personally, i would prefer to introduce a FOS from a position of strength.
Again apologies for lumping the comments together and sorry for the abrupt use of bullet numbers. I think this is a debate very much worthy of having so thanks again for taking the time to comment.It's good to talk. More than happy to take further comments on this....
Thinker - in terms of 'for the moment enjoy the ride', don't worry about that mate. My missus tells me she has never seen me so happy. The pokey hats, balloons, parcels, jelly and ice cream are all ready and waiting for Easter Rd this weekend. Can't wait.
Thanks again guys - enjoy the ride too, every single minute of it. We have been waiting a very long time for this day.
Hail Hail
Take care.
Tic Doc
Anyway, Marko thanks for pointing out my error, Benfica have won the title twice since starting the FOS, still not exactly brilliant for 7 seasons and no basis for emulating it in my opinion but but two it is. Like others I'm not against an FOS, but I am concerned that after no doubt initial enthusiasm for it that a few years afterwards that enthusiasm might drop as numbers fall off maybe and consequently the £10 a month might need to increase to £12 and so on. Numbers might increase, who knows.
Ticdoc, #10 It would indeed be gut wrenching to see any form of support for them from the SNP. At least Lord John McFall was striking the right tone tonight, although personally I would rather see Whyte keep control of them but there seems to be a growing campaign to expose him and I would not be surprised if the SFA conveniently concluded he did not fulfil the fit and proper person test. Personally I dont think that would be good news.
I am sceptical of fans owning the club (too many cooks) and I have a firm belief that Celtic from the grass roots up is run well but that across Scotland there is a large amount of young talent being squandered, due to social problems, lack of opportunities and lack of investment. I am not going to go into explaining the social problems but the FOS can provide the investment and the lack of opportunities...
The old firm need to win all the time so can’t blood youngsters. With the split, the other teams have to win to make it and the ones that don’t make it are usually fighting relegation. This means none of the top clubs can introduce young players into their first team, at least easily. With a severely weakened Rangers, at least for a few years, Celtic will have a once in generation opportunity to develop youth with the near guarantees to success (in terms of trophies and Champions league qualification).
I would therefore propose a FOS of a different kind one that gets back to the roots of what the club was built on, social enterprise and benefiting Glasgow. We let the business side of the club be run as is with the selling and acquisition of players, sponsorship etc. The money the FOS would raise instead of going to pay high transfer fees and salaries goes into youth development.
I have heard that Celtic boys club have an arrangement with a school in the south side of Glasgow that they have a whole team attending the same School. They take for training before school and then after too. Taking this theme and with a FOS potentially generating millions of pounds each year we could fund several schools and like PE have Football as a subject. From 1st to 6th year with at least one class taking Football as a subject that is a minimum of 30 players per year being produced (I know not all of them would make it) but also having a safety net of a good education. A similar model to the one incorporated for dance at Knightswood secondary school (www.knightswoodsecondary.org.uk/dance.htm). The feeder primary schools should also be targeted too as it is said that between 8 and 12 most of your ability/skill is learned (according to Ajax).
Some figures that I could find (from 2003):
Glasgow’s Average budget per Primary School = £533,467
Glasgow’s Average spent on a Primary pupil = £2,369
Glasgow’s Average budget per Secondary School = £3,103,448
Glasgow’s Average spent on a Secondary pupil = £3,513
These figures show that we could completely fund two secondary schools (approx. £6.2m) and fourteen primary schools (approx. £7.5m) for £13.7m. This figure would not be needed as the intention would be to amalgamate with two currently state run schools and therefore a realistic target for the FOC to achieve on a yearly basis. This would be more like be done on a per pupil basis, approx. £8.8m total. Based on the £10 per month we would need 73,000 fans to contribute (very manageable).
This also has knock on benefits for the club as we produce more young Scottish talent the Scottish national team would improve, replacing the contribution of Rangers to the Uefa coefficient.
I believe this could be something that the Celtic fans could really be proud of and in return for their money they would get a representative on the Celtic board, the benefits that have been suggested before (free Celtic TV etc.), while helping Scottish society and setting an example for the world to follow. We won the European cup with a team of Scots we can do it again.
Thanks TimMc - with you 150% on this. I think the original article mentioned investment in team development, not necessarily expensive signings all the time. Your concept would have the full support of all Celtic fans. Was involved in primary school football myslef for many years and loved every minute of it.
Hail Hail all - roll on Easter Rd on Sunday
excellent response to the article ticdoc, especially during a week where there has been so much other content. well done.
lastly, here is an interesting article by the excellent blogger swiss ramble- http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2012/02/bayern-munich-opportunities-lets-make.html It's a thorough analysis of Bayern Munich's accounts. Interestingly Bayern, which of course is majority fan-owned, has recorded profits for the 19th year in a row.
have a good weekend everyone
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