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You’re Sectarian If We Say So PDF Print E-mail
Written by Little Drummer Bhoy   
Tuesday, 14 June 2011 17:31

rob_mclean_scotsportWhen I complained to the BBC about Rob McLean and Pat Nevin’s slur on the Celtic Support at the Scottish Cup Final, I did it out of a sense of duty that I had never felt before.  As a somewhat articulate Tim, I felt I had responsibility to challenge the falsehoods that had been broadcast live on air about Celtic supporters.  The necessity to drive this ‘sectarian/political’ debate that had been discussed on CU a week before the Cup Final, suddenly became an urgent one.  This incident was at the very least ignorance, and at the very most, malice towards Celtic supporters, which only Celtic supporters would be able to put right.

Like the many others who sent their complaints, I received the same generic reply last week.  Now, I was angry when Rob McLean said my friends and family were singing sectarian songs, but this reply was possibly even more insulting.  Everything about it was disrespectful.  I had actually assumed that the reason these responses were talking significantly longer than the 10 days the BBC specified was because they were being taken seriously and replied to appropriately.  Us bhoys never learn, eh?  Now I have my suspicions that this lateness has had more to do with letting the heat die down than anything else. I sense the attitude has been: ‘wait until way into close-season, these daft reactionary fitba fans will have forgotten what all the fuss was about and then we’ll just fob them off without apologising.’  Well, they underestimated the indignation they have brought in me and many others.

But, before going any further, I’d like to lay my cards on the table by saying that I don’t sing Boys of the Old Brigade at games, and I would be very happy if it was never sung at Celtic matches ever again. However, Celtic supporters have the right to sing it at games, as we have the right not to sing it.  Hopefully in future the latter is the right that we’ll exercise. This debate is an important one for the whole of Scottish society, but we cannot let ignorance and obfuscation rule it, as BBC Scotland have shown that they want to do.  If you complained the first time and received their reply, I urge you not to accept it.  Complain again, it’s your duty.  If you did not complain, but saw Kieran’s “Don’t Let The BBC Lies Lie” post and letter, then read on to see sections of the ill-fitting reply that the BBC gave him, and me, and hundreds of others.

This is my follow up complaint to the response I received on 9th June 2010, which I found to be unsatisfactory.  Using material from this reply I would like to show how poor a response this was in light of the points I raised and the wider issues involved.

At the half time interval of our live television broadcast of this year's Scottish Cup Final the presenter and one of the guests briefly mentioned that sectarian singing had been heard coming from a minority of Celtic fans.

This statement is false.  It was not brief, nor did they say “minority”.  The presenter said “the Celtic fans”.  You are attempting here to delegitimize the extent of this slur.

Given the incidents of recent weeks, and taking into account the statement by Neil Lennon posted on the club's official website just days before the Final, it was editorially appropriate to include this short discussion.

Although not relevant to my complaint, you mention that this discussion was “editorially appropriate” in light of Celtic manager Neil Lennon’s statement on Celtic’s official website. Neil Lennon’s statement used the key phrase “In recent times, unfortunately there has been a re-emergence from a small minority, of some of the singing and chanting which is simply not acceptable around our club.” He does not refer to sectarianism because the problem he is dealing with is not a sectarian problem.  Rather, it is a problem of songs relating to Irish political history, which Celtic FC sees as unsuitable to be sung at their games.  This may be due to the fact that they are deemed ‘offensive’ by certain factions of society.  Their being ‘offensive’ is not the same as their being ‘sectarian’. In my original complaint, I asked if you could identify the chant(s) which were deemed sectarian by BBC Scotland.  You have failed to deal with this key point.  If your representatives were indeed “taking into account” what the Celtic manager said regarding particular songs, the word ‘sectarian’ would not and should not have been used whatsoever. This is a problem of inaccuracy, which you have failed to atone for.  However, it is also a problem of selective reporting.  If this short discussion was “editorially appropriate” due to the incidents of recent weeks, then in a season littered with incidents of appalling sectarian violence against representatives and supporters of Celtic Football Club, for what reason was this the sole occasion that fan behaviour was highlighted?  There were several occasions throughout the 2010/2011 where the BBC could have drawn attention to actual sectarian, racist and bigoted singing.  I am referring here to songs which to sing in this country has been deemed an offence aggravated by religious prejudice.  Celtic FC has no such songs and has a clean record in this regard with the Scottish Legal system, UEFA and the SFA.  Rather than highlight the fact that the aforementioned illegal songs were being sung with impunity on numerous occasions, the BBC chose instead to highlight in a high-profile and definitive manner the actions of the fans of one club, on one occasion as being sectarian under utterly false pretences.

Sectarianism and associated behaviours have been the topic of much comment this season and five editions of Sportscene in April and May took time to debate the issue in relation to the general problem and to specific incidents such as the sending of parcel bombs and the fining of Rangers FC by UEFA.

In a further muddying of the water, you refer to “sectarianism and associated behaviours”.  Although I am not certain of what “associated behaviours” of sectarianism would be, I would imagine that they are racism, religious prejudice and religious triumphalism.  If you are implying that although the Celtic support didn’t engage in sectarianism, they engaged in an associated behaviour of sectarianism, could you please point out what you believe that to be?

Although completely irrelevant to the points I raised in my complaint, you mention Rangers FC and their particular problems with sectarianism and subsequent punishments.  This is enlightening in itself as it highlights the willingness to put Celtic into the same ‘sectarian’ bracket.  Perhaps the fact that Rangers FC had recently had another UEFA sanction added to their long lists of punishments caused the BBC Scotland sports team to seize the opportunity to drag Celtic down to this debate with them. One can only speculate why this would be the case.  Due to the fact that these comments were based on the testimony of “those outside hearing the songs being sung” and also the ample time devoted to discussing the subject, it was clear that this item had been encouraged and approved by someone in the production team.  In my initial complaint I said “the BBC is supposed to stand for an independent, balanced, unbiased and critical search for truth. This outburst was the epitome of simple-minded sensationalism and agenda driven propaganda.”  I still firmly believe the latter statement to be the case, if not the former.  However, your generic reply has led me to believe that this particular agenda is something that BBC Scotland is very willing to stand by and defend.

There is a continuing debate around the definition of "sectarian" and we accept that it would have been more accurate for our presenter to refer to "songs that some people believe to be an expression of sectarianism but which many people nonetheless find both offensive and provocative".

The convoluted sentence that you suggest would have been more accurate is, frankly, laughable. I was not aware that the BBC’s view on the problem of sectarianism in Scotland was based on what “some people believe”. Your claim that the definition of the word “sectarian” is in flux is both dangerous and offensive. Would a representative of your corporation be as confident to say “there is a continuing debate around the definition of ‘racism’”?  The definition of “sectarian” is not up for debate here. The definition of “sectarianism” is ‘something of or pertaining to a sect or narrowly confined and devoted to a sect.’ It would have been more accurate for your presenter to refer to “songs which some people find offensive” or to “offensive chanting”.

There is no doubt that the issue of sectarianism in Scotland has moved into a new phase since the events of April and May, with the First Minister asserting that tackling it in all its forms will be a priority for the new government.

Although completely irrelevant to my complaint, you affirm that the issue of sectarianism in Scotland has moved into a new phase and that tackling it is a priority for the new government.  I can only hope that unlike BBC Scotland, the Scottish government isn’t so cowardly as to not be able to attempt to define what sectarianism actually is.

BBC Scotland will continue to report on this and all other areas of public interest and debate in a fair and balanced manner over time. We can also assure you that your concerns have been registered on our audience log; this is a daily report of audience feedback that’s made available to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, channel controllers and other senior managers.

This is an extremely disappointing and unsatisfactory answer.  I cannot accept that the incident in question was handled in a fair and balanced manner, nor has your reply to my complaint. The points I raised have not been dealt with at all, and absolutely no remorse has been shown for what was a very serious allegation made falsely live on air.  Further, you have attempted to play down the seriousness of this incident with more false information, while attempting to obscure the issue by claiming that what is and isn’t ‘sectarian’ is somehow up for debate.  The incident was inflammatory in itself, but this generic and bungled reply is even more so.

A full retraction of the claims made by Rob McLean and Pat Nevin as well as an apology for sullying the name of Celtic FC and its supporters is the only acceptable action from the BBC.  I am willing to take this complaint as far as is within my power.

Yours sincerely,

 

Dim lights

Last Updated on Friday, 17 June 2011 10:14
 

Comments  

 
+16 #1 lenobhoy 2011-06-15 08:38
A superb, well written and concise complaint. Anyone who does not reply to the poor response they received from BBC Scotland within 20 days will not be able to do so. So get them in and tell them what you think of it. I'd like to know what the club is doing as it will only be pressure from the club and fans will anything be get done about this.
 
 
+14 #2 MaestroMcStay 2011-06-15 08:48
Excellent article. BBC Scotland are paying lip service to these complaints and waiting for us all to go away and forget about this. They obviously have a duty to us licence payers to go through the motions as it where but that's the problem. They know that we must pay that licence fee so they're safe. If, for example, Jim White or David Tanner made the same sort of comment live on Sky I know I'd be on the phone cancelling my subscription. No doubt many others would follow.
 
 
+16 #3 Derbyshirebhoy 2011-06-15 09:11
Cannot agree more. The BBC have failed miserably to address the content of my original complaint which contained similar points to those you have made. I agree it is up to those who have the capacity and the persistence to pursue this complaint to an acceptable conclusion not least of which should be a public apology at prime viewing time.
 
 
+10 #4 john88 2011-06-15 10:34
great article,what has been annoying me and
i may be wrong here but as far as i know celtic have not complained on behalf of the
supporters who have been slandered by a public service broadcaster
 
 
+6 #5 lenobhoy 2011-06-15 10:52
John, supposedly Celtic have gone behind the scenes on this but I'd like to see them make a statement or take a hard line with BBC Scotland on this. It has not harmed Sir Furious at Man U in cutting off the Beeb. Celtic should let the fans know what they are doing (unless the work behind the scenes is going to produce what we want; a retraction and an apology). BBC Scotland seem to be getting away with more and more and we are just taking it - see last season's stuff about the ref's strike when it was blamed on Celtic and now this.
 
 
+2 #6 Capital Bhoy 2011-06-15 14:00
That is the first time I've heard McLean say that and I thank god I was at the match,otherwise I would have put my foot through the tv screen.Disgraceful.
 
 
+8 #7 hoopsnrays 2011-06-15 19:02
I believe the persistence and determination of people like yourself is doing a great service to our fans. I personally didn't submit a complaint, solely for the reason that I wouldn't be able to articualte a good argument like yourself. Good to see you fighting the corner and I look foward with anticipation to their response.
 
 
+8 #8 Auldyin 2011-06-15 19:52
Having ploughed through the BBC Complaints obstacle course about the reporting of the referres strike I just went straight to the ECU and told them a storm of complaints was heading their way. Glad to see I was right and well constructed letters like this one will get a considered answer from the ECU. So go back to BBC Scotland first and if they fail to address the second complaint write to the ECU (Editorial Complaints Unit) and escalate until youy get a response to the points made. The ECU will be getting pissed off with BBC Sport Scotland and should be asking questions of the production ethics at play.
BTW Celtic have raised the issue but on asking if any progress had been made the response was the folk dealing with it were on holiday. So it is still on their radar.
 
 
+6 #9 peco 2011-06-16 09:15
Fantastic response - it took the BBC weeks to come up with a completely self-serving, weak, sterile and generic response to the complaints, one which was probably sanctioned at the highest levels from the their PR/Customer Services team given the scale of the complaints.

The forensic way that you have unpicked this, relating back to your original complaint gives you very good grounds to escalate this further. Good luck and hope others do likewise.
 
 
+5 #10 Celticmindedubet 2011-06-16 17:59
The debate on wether the BBC were actually political in this scenario goes without understanding. They were wrong, they know it, we know it and every likeminded person knows it.

BUT,, I cannot and will not understand why Celtic supporters feel that the singing of songs at celtic Park like The Boys of the Old Brigade should be eradicated from there. There is nothing sectarian, offensive or bogoted about it, indeed I have sat beside poeple from Bolivia,Cuba,Urigauy and Argentina who sand songs , brought out theyre flags and had theire pictures taken at the one ground they thought stood for free speech.

Singing songs like the BOTOB are also part of that, or are we now saying its ok to sing songs of freedom from all over the world but not if it means the BBC et al having a comment.

This is a question of education The Boys song is no more offensive that Flowers of the Forest and should be a seen that way, not us cowering because we think its something that will 'offend' the Establishment.
 
 
+5 #11 Fife Bhoy 2011-06-17 06:26
IMHO this distortion of facts by the BBC Scotland is just about as bad as it gets.

To me it seemed contrived. McLean and Nevin seemed to be acting out a part in something that was predetermined. A set-up. However, as much I am convinced this was the case it would be impossible to prove.

But what we as a support can prove is that the BBC presented the viewer with unsubstantiated rumour—hearsay—tittle tattle, as fact. Will Wyatt, former BBC Director General is quoted in the Independent this morning on this very topic in relation to the Panorama/Primark scandal. He says: “It’s always serious if you present the public with something which you say is evidence of wrong –doing and it isn’t”.

If we don’t get a public apology and disciplinary action Little Drummer Boy is right to take this all the way to the BBC Trust. Auldyin in his comments tells us how to do this.

This could well be BBC Scotland’s Dougie Dougie moment.
 
 
+3 #12 lenobhoy 2011-06-17 09:38
The ruling by the BBC Trust and that quote by Will Wyatt should be thrown back at them in every subsequent reply. They have broken their guidlines, they have been dishonest with their audience and they will need to retract the statement they made and apologise. Here's hoping you are right Fife Bhoy but I had a feeling this one might be their Dougie Dougie moment.
 
 
+4 #13 Fife Bhoy 2011-06-17 10:38
Agree with you lenobhoy that anyone going all the way with this complaint can use the Independent’s Wyatt quote to beat BBC Scotland about the head with.

We can also us quotes from the same article re the judgement by BBC trustee Alison Hastings, Chair of its Editorial Standards Committee that: “investigative journalism”—which is what the intrepid Messrs McLean and Nevin ventured into—“must be based on the highest standards of accuracy”.

Like I said, unlike the Panorama/Primark documentary we can’t prove that their exchange was not authentic, but we can prove that it was not accurate. In fact the standard reply sent out by BBC concedes this point re the sectarian nature of the chanting/singing.

This complaint does not have the same seriousness to the BBC as the Panorama one because unlike Primark we don’t have top QCs acting for us, ready to sue the BBC, but when it gets to the BBC Trust it will involve the same principles as the case they have just adjudicated on.
 
 
0 #14 Little Drummer Bhoy 2011-06-17 12:35
Thanks for all your comments lads.

The Will Wyatt quote and the whole Primark/Panorama affair will definitely be used in my follow up, so thanks for enlightening me.

I can only hope there are people within Celtic Park that take this as seriously as us. I have read ridiculous anti-Celtic dross in the rags for years, basically accepting that this is what we need to put up with in Scotland. This was the first time I felt that a real line had been crossed and I didn't want to mince my words.

I feel this debate has reached it's fruition time in Scotland. I've said before on this site that Celtic supporters have every right to sing about the martyred heroes of Irish independence as any other set of supporters in Scotland have the right to sing 'Flower of Scotland', 'Killiecrankie' or 'God Save the Queen' for that matter. They are branches from the same tree. The difference is that Irish political history is the hot potato of ignorance and prejudice that we have to deal with in this country. Which leads me on to...

Celticmindedubet, thanks for your comment. The reason I felt it was appropriate to state where I stand with regards to BOTOB was so that this letter didn't look as if I had written it with the over-riding intention to justify my standing chanting IRA every week. I don't sing these songs at Celtic Park mainly because, it doesn't do anything for me, I just love singing about Celtic, it is an essential part of my Celtic experience. I hope you can see that I'm not the type to 'cower from the Establishment'. I hope we can be comfortable ehough in our own culture to choose not to sing these songs, in simple terms to be the bigger, better person. However, whether or not we disagree, Neil Lennon has come out and said that he wants it to stop.

I must admit to being in two minds about the song debate at times. I remember Gerry McNee and his one man campaign to get 'The Fields of Athenry' stopped being played at Celtic Park. I was just a boy at the time, and even I could see the ignorance and denial of his viewpoint. I can't imagine anybody would get much support for attempting to ban 'Athenry' now, and I'd like to think this has to do with the fact that people became educated to the song and it's message, although it's obviously always going to annoy/offend morons. There may be a slightly similar thread to be pulled with BOTOB in Scotland, though the actual line 'joined the IRA' and the subsequent fury it causes in opposition supports leads me to believe that it's always going to enflame offence.

In any case, we need to drive the debate from just utter fear-based ignorance and assumptions, into reasoned and rational discussions. We always do well in that light, so we do.

Thanks again gents.
 
 
+1 #15 lenobhoy 2011-06-17 13:41
Fife Bhoy - it took Primark three years to get this ruling, I just hope that the folk inside Celtic really start to clamp down on this, in relation to the BBC and other media outlets. We need to keep the pressure on and make sure we get redress.
 
 
+2 #16 Derbyshirebhoy 2011-06-17 16:03
Little Drummer Bhoy

Just a couple of points.

Like you I would wish that anything relating to the IRA was not sung as I don't believe it helps Celtic and its image in the British Isles where we play our football.

The issue of acceptance of such as BOTB is very much an issue where time is very relevant. Whilst Flower of Scotland is seen here in England almost as a romantic ballad because I would argue of its distance in time BOTB being so much closer in time to memories of mainland bombs is a much harder sell. In Scotland as we all know it’s a red rag to a bull and to a large extent it’s for that reason that I would prefer to hear songs that support as opposed to songs that antagonise.

That said I was some time ago persuaded by the argument that the BOTB should be regarded in the way you view it. It took me some years however to accept that point of view and I have supported Celtic in the flesh for the past 55 years and sang the likes of Sean South with everyone else in my youth. That I had that difficulty in coming round to this acceptance may well bring home to others that it’s not going to be that easy to change the mindset of people who are naturally against us.

So I guess my stance now is one of I may not like what they sing but I will defend to the hilt their right to sing it.

This of course raises a basic point which I have included in my original complaint and which was not answered viz. what was being sung that was considered sectarian? This was only one of a number of questions I raised which the BBC failed to answer and which I am asking them to do before taking the next stage in the process via the Editorial Unit and onwards to the Trust.

I await with great relish how they will address the difference in their response to complaints re the League Cup Final when they said that
“It is not and has never been custom and practice for our commentators to offer opinions on chants from the crowd.”

Their lack of reference to anything sectarian then contrasts very much unfairly with their all too obvious attempt at smearing the Celtic support via Messrs Mc Lean and Nevin and cannot be defended by anyone impartial.

The BBC as with the SFA will ultimately come to realise that with the opportunity the internet provides for communication and discussion their days of obfuscation and divide and conquer are numbered.

In that respect I would urge anyone who can write to ensure that all and any issues of a similar nature are vigorously challenged.
 
 
+4 #17 Little Drummer Bhoy 2011-06-17 16:15
Derbyshirebhoy, cheers. We're on the same page mate. As I said, there's the right to sing it, and the right to choose not to sing it. We shouldn't feel the need to antagonise, but we also should know that if a politically controversial song we sing antagonises not just Those Born Of A Jackal, but Scottish society in general, then we are leaving ourselves open to all kinds of criticism and most damningly, being thrown in with the Rotten Mob. Mud sticks. It's not worth it.

I think I missed a trick by not mentioning that League Cup Final "it is not and has never been custom etc." quote in my complaint. But there's plenty of time for that in our next installment of "When Tims Fight Back"...

Hail Hail!
 
 
+4 #18 Fife Bhoy 2011-06-17 18:04
#17 Little Drummer Bhoy, leaving aside the songs debate, I had initially thought that the only person with a strong argument about the BBC’s previous position re racist/sectarian singing was the complainer who elicited that response—“it is not and never has been custom etc”—from the BBC.

On reflection as this supposed BBC protocol has been published on several Celtic sites it is now in the public domain and any one of us can use it as argument to support our complaint, be that at this stage or the next.
 
 
+2 #19 arniebhoy 2011-06-20 22:23
love the letter drummerbhoy,

can i just say to all tims out there that you really DO NOT have to purchase a tv license from these scoundrels. not now, not ever.

without going in to all the details, for anyone who is interested just take a look at this website and read through the article i have given the url for. there is a lot more info on the topic in the forums on the same site.

www.tpuc.org/stoppayingtvlicencefees

all the best guys with your letters and if i could only find the time i would without a doubt be writing my own. in the meantime though, i hope you will, like me never in your life pay for a tv license again. i am proud to say they have never had a single penny from me and never will.
 
 
+2 #20 Derbyshirebhoy 2011-06-21 12:56
Just received BBC response to follow up complaint.

Thanks for your further comments, regarding Sportscene: Scottish Cup Final, transmitted on Saturday 21st May 2011.

Your comments were passed to the Head of Sport, who is sorry to hear that you felt the response you received was unsatisfactory. Whilst he appreciates you continue to have concerns with this particular issue, he has nothing to add to the previous correspondence with you.

Should you wish to pursue this complaint further, you can contact the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit, who will independently investigate your complaint. You can write to them at the following address:

Editorial Complaints Unit, Room 5170, White City, BBC Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TS

Alternatively, you can email the Unit at the address: ecu@bbc.co.uk

Details of the BBC complaints process are available online at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/handle.shtml

Whether or not you choose to pursue your complaint with the ECU, please be assured your further concerns have been registered.

Thanks once again for taking the time to contact us.

www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

No surprise there as they would find it difficult to satisfactorily answer specifics without further undermining their position. Onwards to the next stage then.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
+2 #21 Fife Bhoy 2011-06-21 13:39
#20 Derbyshirebhoy I got the same.

On to the ECU now.
 
 
+2 #22 lenobhoy 2011-06-21 13:50
Head of Sport wiping his hands of it and leaving it now to the ECU. Get those complaints in and make 'em good.
 
 
+2 #23 Little Drummer Bhoy 2011-06-21 21:01
Got my reply today. Same one as #20 Derbyshirebhoy.

It might as well have said "I don't give a toss you wee fenian mug. Do your worst."

I didn't expect anything else. On to the next stage.

Thanks for that link arniebhoy, that is of great interest to me. Just need about 6 months to talk the good lady into it...

Hail Hail.
 
 
+1 #24 eddiepearson 2011-06-22 18:54
Who is Head of Sport at BBC Scotland?
 
 
+1 #25 lenobhoy 2011-06-22 19:42
The Head of Sport at BBC Scotland is Ewan Angus. The one that you were talking about on the podcast David Harron is only the editor for Sportscene.
 
 
0 #26 arniebhoy 2011-06-27 18:01
my pleasure little drummer bhoy, good luck with the mrs.

i wish every celtic supporter out there would do as i do and withhold their money from this biased corporation. there is no legal obligation to pay them anything
 
 
0 #27 Fife Bhoy 2011-07-04 09:11
Lates from Ofcom:-
Sportscene: Scottish Cup Final, BBC1 Scotland, 20th May 2011

Thank you for contacting Ofcom.

We understand that you were concerned by the remarks of some of the commentators during a discussion at halftime.

Whilst the Ofcom Broadcasting Code does contain rules relating to accuracy and impartiality, under the terms of the Communications Act the BBC is not licensed by Ofcom in the same way as the commercial broadcasters, and to reflect this situation a Memorandum of Understanding exists between Ofcom and the BBC Trust whereby the Trust regulates these areas, not Ofcom.

After viewing the relevant material and carefully considering your complaint, Ofcom has concluded that any offence from this remark arose from a perceived inaccuracy. As such, it takes the view that this matter should be addressed by the BBC directly. The BBC’s details are below should you wish to contact them.

BBC Complaints
PO Box 1922
Darlington
DL3 0UR
www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

Tel: 03700 100 222

Yours sincerely

Ofcom Standards Team

:: Ofcom
Riverside House
2a Southwark Bridge Road
London
SE1 9HA
020 7981 3000
http://www.ofcom.org.uk
 
 
0 #28 Derbyshirebhoy 2011-07-06 18:31
I've had a response from Andrew Bell The Complaints Director today.

It basically indicates what the Editorial Complaints Unit can investigate and summarises what he sees as the relevant points made in that context and which he can therefore deal with. Other issues it appears e.g why the subject was raised and who said what to whom for example need to go back to Ian Small Head of Public Policy & Corporate Affairs at BBC Scotland.

What is interesting is that he suggests that

“As you may be aware, however, we have received a large number of complaints on this issue, and if we were to deal with them in the normal way, investigating each complaint separately, it would be many weeks before some complainants received a finding. In order to reach a speedy determination on the essential issues, as they are reflected in the totality of the complaints we have received, we propose to deal with them in a slightly different way.”

That way it appears is to deal with what he considers the essential points.

He says

“In my view, the essential points of complaint, raising particular editorial issues, which
emerged from the complaints we have received, can be summed up as follows:


That the programme inaccurately described songs as sectarian which were not
In fact sectarian,.

That in doing so, the programme was unfair to Celtic supporters who were
,,said to be singing sectarian songs when this was not so,`

'And that the programme was lacking in impartiality by focussing upon
allegations of sectarian behaviour by Celtic fans and failing to mention recent
events which involved allegations of sectarian behaviour by supporters of
Glasgow Rangers.”

You will note that he says

failing to mention recent events which involved allegations of sectarian behaviour by supporters of Glasgow Rangers.”

I don’t know about anyone else but that was not my complaint. My complaint was that Sportscene made no comment on the day of the Scottish League Cup Final of widely known and unlawful sectarian singing by Rangers Supporters and excused their lack of comment then by saying

It is not and has never been custom and practice for our commentators to offer opinions on chants from the crowd. They are there to describe the game. Also, whilst commentating they are wearing headphones and listening to the director’s voice in their ear, so I would be surprised if they could accurately make out crowd chants in any case.”
Despite that lack of comment then because

It is not and has never been custom and practice for our commentators to offer opinions on chants from the crowd the BBC then proceeded to cast a slur upon all of the Celtic Support attending the Scottish Cup Final by suggesting they were singing sectarian songs.

The issue for me is that the decision for this different treatment was an editorial decision and was biased and unfair. That is the issue I require a specific response on and is an issue for which the BBC must publicly apologise.
 
 
0 #29 Fife Bhoy 2011-07-06 19:22
Derbyshirebhoy my complaint was different to yours in that initially I did not consider it was the place of live sporting events journalists to make social commentary and because of this I complained about the anti-Irish racist/anti RC singing (famine song and billy bhoys) at the CIS cup final, not to the BBC but to the police, who failed to act on it, and to my MP/MSP.

My understanding of the role of sports reporting teams was endorsed when it became public knowledge that the BBC had confirmed it in writing to someone else who did complain. The definition of the BBC Sports’ teams—sports commentary only—role for the CIS Cup final applied when deafening sectarian singing by Ranger’s fans was heard throughout.

Astonishingly this policy was reversed only weeks later at the Scottish Cup final when no sectarian singing from Celtic fans could be heard!

My complaint re the Scottish Cup final started out as one that centred on reporting hearsay as fact. But the response to my complaint said in effect that an editorial decision had changed the role of the Sportscene reporting team to one of public interest/current affairs commentators aided by investigative journalists—reporting criminal acts—from outside the studio broadens the issues.

If McLean and Co are to be current affairs and investigative journalists then they must adhere to the strict codes for such reporting. Part of my complaint is along these lines.

Then there is the question of what songs the BBC said were sung that were not sectarian but offensive? I have asked this question but they won’t answer.

Also, why did the BBC lie in response to complaints by twisting McLean’s word to include “minority”?

Why answer—or fail to answer—specific complaints with a generic response (which seems to be happening with the ECU from your response)? This is most disrespectful.

I haven’t had my response yet but if it does not answer the specific complaints I made I will be taking it on to the BBC Trust.
 
 
0 #30 Derbyshirebhoy 2011-07-06 19:39
Hi Fife Bhoy

I think it says a lot that they are atempting once more to condense the issues as best they can into a common who;e of complaints to which they can then make general responses. I am sure answering specifics will cause them great pain.

I intend to pursue the issues that the ECU say they cannot investigate via BBC Scotland as they have suggested so that by the time we get to the Trust they will not be able to say they have not been given the opportunity to rectify the complaints made.

The issue of mistruth re the minority comment is interesting since they made no mention of that. I need to ask Mr Bell who has the responsibility for answering that specific issue?

In the meantime I've sent this response.

Dear Mr Bell



Thank you for your letter and the explanation of the points on which you can investigate.



I am assuming that Mr Small will be able to advise me of the process for elevating my complaint relating to those issues you cannot investigate.



Regarding the summary of essential points you have made I regret that I must take issue with your conclusion that



failing to mention recent events which involved allegations of sectarian behaviour by supporters of Glasgow Rangers.”



accurately reflects my complaint on this issue.





My complaint was that Sportscene made no comment on the day of the Scottish League Cup Final of widely acknowledged and unlawful sectarian singing by Rangers Supporters and excused their lack of comment then by saying



It is not and has never been custom and practice for our commentators to offer opinions on chants from the crowd. They are there to describe the game. Also, whilst commentating they are wearing headphones and listening to the director’s voice in their ear, so I would be surprised if they could accurately make out crowd chants in any case.”



Despite that lack of comment then because



It is not and has never been custom and practice for our commentators to offer opinions on chants from the crowd



the BBC then proceeded to cast a slur upon all of the Celtic Support attending the Scottish Cup Final by suggesting they were singing sectarian songs.



The issue for me is that the decision for this different treatment was an editorial decision involving a change of policy and was therefore biased and unfair. That is the issue I require a specific response on and is an issue which the BBC must explain and for which the BBC must publicly apologise.



I trust you will be able to deal with this issue and respond to that specific point.
 
 
0 #31 Fife Bhoy 2011-07-06 21:57
Should have also said that my complaint about the defamatory comments about Celtic broadcast as fact by the BBC have not been retracted or regretted…”perhaps we should have said offensive singing etc”…doesn’t do it!

If there is no apology from the BBC then the traducing of Celtic’s reputation by the BBC could be said to amount to slander and/or libel.

I have made it clear in my complaint that I am concerned that a company I have a financial stake in….Celtic FC….is being damaged by BBC Scotland.

This is not a minor point and while small shareholders are not the threat to the BBC that Primark was the principle is the same and the Trust would be aware of this if it were put under their noses.

If the ECU issue a generic response that doesn’t respond to my specific concerns that the BBC by their actions have damaged my financial interest….as well as my sense of pride….in a company that I am part of they would be unwise.
 
 
+2 #32 Derbyshirebhoy 2011-07-07 15:20
Fife Bhoy

In my complaint I said

I would also remind the BBC that Celtic Plc is a Public Company ultimately responsible to its shareholders. The actions of Celtic Supporters and how they are viewed has the potential of reflecting on the financial well – being of the Company in terms of sponsorship and associated financial input and as such unfounded allegations such as those made by Rob Mc Lean on 21st May could affect the financial health of the Plc. On that front a public apology is needed to restore the reputation of both the Celtic Support and the Plc.

I intend to ensure that before this finishes the least that Sportscene will do is to wish they hadn't made the comments.
 
 
0 #33 Fife Bhoy 2011-07-07 16:08
#32
"I intend to ensure that before this finishes the least that Sportscene will do is to wish they hadn't made the comments."

Ditto
 
 
0 #34 Auldyin 2011-07-07 22:17
They are going to be sorrrry.

Keep up the good work folks.
 
 
0 #35 Baresi 2011-07-10 13:01
In exactly the same boat Eddie, at stage 3 'White City' of my complaint. I think it may be investigated more seriously now that it is out of Pacific Quay's hands.
 

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